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A Dance w/Dragons (Spoilers for 'A Song of Ice and Fire')

Posted by Jack S. Pharaoh on Tuesday, July 5, 2011

One week until the book comes out. I haven't really been too excited, but I'm starting to wonder about some of the things that will be revealed in the book.

Ipsilon
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Posted: 3 years 20 weeks ago

I will be avoiding this thread like the plague.

That happened and we all let it happen.
Quasar
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Posted: 3 years 20 weeks ago

Jack will be able to answer everyone's questions about the book starting on July 13th. (possibly sooner)

Faster and faster, a nightmare we ride. Who'll take the reins when the miracle dies? Faster and faster till everything dies. Killing is our way of keeping alive. - Virgin Steele, Blood and Gasoline
Jack S. Pharaoh
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Posted: 3 years 20 weeks ago

I've been reading some threads at the westeros forums, and one was talking about who Coldhands is (assuming he is somebody other than himself).  One suggestion is that he is Benjen Stark, which is the most common theory, and one I've never given much credit to.  Another theory mentioned was that maybe he is Bloodraven.  I can't remember if I'd heard this theory before, but it's one that immediately piques my interest.  Bloodraven is a character from some decades in the past, who is probably mentioned in the books, but is mentioned more prominently in the Hedge Knight novellas.  Bloodraven was Hand of the king at one point, later imprisoned (by a succeeding king, I think), then later sent to the Wall as part of Aemon Targaryen's entourage.  Bloodraven eventually became Lord Commander of the Night's Watch.  He's sort of a queer fellow, at least in his description and the rumors about him.  He was an albino, with a winestain birthmark across his neck and face.  He lost an eye during a battlefield duel with his half-brother Bittersteel, and later he took his half-sister Sierra Seaster as his lover (or maybe they started their affair earlier; idk).  He was rumored to be a sorcerer, or the like.  I'm trying to remember what little we learned about Coldhands in the third book.  Did he wear black like a member of the Night's Watch?  I think he did, which is why people guess that he used to be one of them.  (I just tried looking CH up at westeros, and there wasn't anything about how he was dressed, but he did address Sam as "brother," which may indicate CH is a member of the NW).

Quasar
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Posted: 3 years 20 weeks ago

Bloodraven? Bittersteel? Sounds like you're talking about that Russian movie Night Watch.

Faster and faster, a nightmare we ride. Who'll take the reins when the miracle dies? Faster and faster till everything dies. Killing is our way of keeping alive. - Virgin Steele, Blood and Gasoline
Jack S. Pharaoh
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Posted: 3 years 20 weeks ago

Other things I am interested in: Jon Connington.  He was one of Rhaegar's few close friends, and was made Hand of the King early during Robert's Rebellion when Rheagar could not be found.  After the royalists lost to the rebels at the Battle of the Bells, Connington was banished to the Free Cities, and supposedly died later on.  There was some rumor amongst ASoIaF fans that either he or his son would appear in the next book (can't remember where that rumor came from).  Either way, that person could possess some great information about what went on with Rhaegar when he was alive.

Also concerning Rhaegar: his son, the dead baby Aegon.  For years there have been theories amongst the fans that baby Aegon didn't die in the sack of King's Landing, even though that's the story in the books.  Once, when Martin was answering questions at some gathering, he was asked to confirm the deaths of Rhaegar's two children, and he would only confirm the death of the daughter.  One of the theories that I thought wasn't too bad was that Rhaegar, or somebody close to him, had switched his son with another baby, maybe an infant son of Ashara Dayne (assuming she had one; I don't know if there's any indication that she did).  The Daynes have Valyrian blood, and purplish eyes run in their family.  After Eddard and Howland Reed and their party defeated and killed the three Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy (one of the kingsguard was Ser Arthur Dayne), Eddard traveled to Starfall to deliver to Ashara her dead brother's sword.  Afterward, it is said she lept from a tower to her death.  There have been ongoing theories amongst fans that there was something more than her brother's death that caused her to kill herself.

Anyway, the best theory that I have seen is that a pretender is going to emerge claiming to be the long lost baby Aegon.  This theory is further strengthened by one of the prophecies Dany received, about a "mummer's dragon."  This could be a problem for Dany, since her claim to the Iron Throne is based at least to some degree on her being a "rightful heir" to her dead father, but a living son of Rhaegar would come before her in the succession.  Unlike real world impersonators, like people claiming to be Richard, one of the Princes in the Tower, or the girl claiming to be Anastasia, in the book series there is no reason for people to believe that Aegon is still alive.  Though, reading a little bit of that wikipedia page about Anastasia, I guess there wasn't too much reason to think she was alive either, except that nobody knew where she was buried.  With the Princes in the Tower, it is still unknown what happened to them, which would've made them an easy target for an impersonator.  But the baby Aegon and his sister were both laid out, and many people must have seen them, though they were covered with red cloaks to hide the carnage (Aegon's head had supposedly been smashed against a wall, and his sister had been stabbed dozens of times).  If the pretender emerges on the eastern continent, there might be few people there with firsthand knowledge to counter his claim.

Jack S. Pharaoh
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Posted: 3 years 20 weeks ago

Quasar wrote:

Bloodraven? Bittersteel? Sounds like you're talking about that Russian movie Night Watch.

I don't think either of those names sound like anything having to do with that movie.

Daltons chin dimple
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Posted: 3 years 20 weeks ago

I have just skipped to the end of this thread without reading any of the content. I demand pity. Jack has made this thread out of cruelty.

....says "Kill Bond, NOW!"
Ipsilon
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Posted: 3 years 20 weeks ago

<Redacted.  Not funny after all.  I know; hard to believe.>

That happened and we all let it happen.
The Swollen Goi...
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Posted: 3 years 20 weeks ago

<The redaction's what's hard to believe.>

Jakester
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Posted: 3 years 20 weeks ago

I read The Hedge Knight last week. I was disappointed that it had a happy ending.

I somehow saw some spoilers for what is alleged to happen in A Dance With Dragons, and I must say that if they are true, I shall be rather put out.

Richard Gozinya, Harold Snatch and Wilbur Jizz. Together we are the law firm Gozinya, Snatch and Jizz.
Quasar
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Posted: 3 years 20 weeks ago

I'm kind of surprised that I have no idea what to expect from the next book. I'd kind of sunk into an emotionless lull with regards to ever seeing another book in the series come out, and I don't think I've yet to come out of it (even though I know the new book's coming out next week, I don't think I actually believe it). About the only thing I know is that I'm disappointed the title is actually A Dance of Dragons, because I've heard that was supposed to be the title of the last 2 books (or maybe the last 3), so I'm disappointed that the title A Dance of Dragons wasn't put off until the final book in the series (although to be fair, each book that comes out has the potential to be the last book released in the series), or not used altogether and to always be the rumored title of the next book until the series finally ends, where it'd then be relegated to be the title of the never to see the light of day rumored follow up.

Faster and faster, a nightmare we ride. Who'll take the reins when the miracle dies? Faster and faster till everything dies. Killing is our way of keeping alive. - Virgin Steele, Blood and Gasoline
Jack S. Pharaoh
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Posted: 3 years 20 weeks ago

Jakester wrote:

I read The Hedge Knight last week. I was disappointed that it had a happy ending.I somehow saw some spoilers for what is alleged to happen in A Dance With Dragons, and I must say that if they are true, I shall be rather put out.

Where did you read 'The Hedge Knight'? Is it available on the kindle? I've heard that there are both spoilers and foilers floating around for 'Dance', so maybe you haven't learnt anything spoilery. Six days to go!

Jakester
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Posted: 3 years 20 weeks ago

The two are unrelated. I saw the spoilers on some website somewhere. They annoyed me.

I don't know if the Hedge Knight is available for sale on the Kindle, but I have an e-book copy that I read on my kindle app. <whistles>

Richard Gozinya, Harold Snatch and Wilbur Jizz. Together we are the law firm Gozinya, Snatch and Jizz.
Quasar
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Posted: 3 years 20 weeks ago

Jack's points were unrelated also. He doesn't like using paragraphs.

Faster and faster, a nightmare we ride. Who'll take the reins when the miracle dies? Faster and faster till everything dies. Killing is our way of keeping alive. - Virgin Steele, Blood and Gasoline
Quasar
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Posted: 3 years 20 weeks ago

I just pre-ordered ADWD from Amazon. That makes me special.

Faster and faster, a nightmare we ride. Who'll take the reins when the miracle dies? Faster and faster till everything dies. Killing is our way of keeping alive. - Virgin Steele, Blood and Gasoline
Jack S. Pharaoh
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Posted: 3 years 20 weeks ago

James Hibberd of EW answers some questions about ADwD (very mild spoilers: he mentions some of the characters who get POVs, which people here alread know, and he talks about what some of the main characters are doing in the beginning of the book).

Jack S. Pharaoh
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Posted: 3 years 20 weeks ago

The embargo for reviews of the book is apparently over, as they are popping up online today.  Here's what reviewer guy at Time says:

Lev Grossman wrote:

The complexity of Martin's design ensures that we experience the struggle for Westeros from all sides at once. It's as if he's trying to show us that every fight is both triumph and tragedy, depending on where you see it from, and everybody is both hero and villain at the same time. Or maybe not even that. "There are no heroes, only whores," says Theon. On the strength of A Dance with Dragons, it's hard to prove him wrong.

Quasar
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Posted: 3 years 20 weeks ago

I wouldn't trust Theon's word on anything.

I guess that answers the question on Theon. I wasn't sure if he'd died in the third book. Apparently he did not.

Faster and faster, a nightmare we ride. Who'll take the reins when the miracle dies? Faster and faster till everything dies. Killing is our way of keeping alive. - Virgin Steele, Blood and Gasoline
KingVoyeur
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Posted: 3 years 20 weeks ago

A nice non-spoilery review from Tor.com:

Winter is Almost Upon Us

Honey bunches.....of death!
Quasar
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Posted: 3 years 20 weeks ago

Awesome! I'd just been to tor, so thought you were linking to the "Where they are" article about where all the characters ended up at the end of Feast.

< Ulic > Can't wait till next week to get my hands on that precious tome! < /Ulic >

Faster and faster, a nightmare we ride. Who'll take the reins when the miracle dies? Faster and faster till everything dies. Killing is our way of keeping alive. - Virgin Steele, Blood and Gasoline
Jack S. Pharaoh
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Posted: 3 years 20 weeks ago

I just went to Tor to check that ASoIaF primer: from some of the comments, it looks like people have already pointed out errors and that they have corrected them, but the primer still reads that the Tyrells are inactive, which is not true.  It is stated at the end of 'Feast' that Mace Tyrell has lifted his siege of Storm's End and is marching on King's Landing, to free his daughter.  Stupid Tor.

The Swollen Goi...
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Posted: 3 years 20 weeks ago

<post mode="Ulic">In FIVE DAYS what was once thought an IMPOSSIBILITY will become a CERTAINTY.

In FIVE DAYS... NEW QUESTIONS will be asked just as old questions are ANSWERED.

A DAYNE WILL be GREAT... in as many days as there are in the typical work week!

In JUST OVER THIRTY-FIVE PERCENT OF A FORTNIGHT, a SMALL DIGIT will RISE.  (SMALL DIGIT.  Get it?  Huh?!  GET IT?!!!!)

The SNOW will run RED (RED!) in only five full TURNS of this HUMBLE third PLANET AWAFROM and BaCToWaRD ITS CLOSEST ILLUMINATING STAR!

A DWARF will prove himself A MOUNTAIN OF A MAN in roughly 120 HOURS!
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In FIVE DAYS... DRAGONS WILL DANCE!</post>

Jack S. Pharaoh
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Posted: 3 years 20 weeks ago

Is this you doing Ulic, Thursty?  Is that what you're doing?  You left out your Ulie tags.  Also, I don't get the pinky thing.

Quasar
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Posted: 3 years 20 weeks ago

OMG! I didn't know we were getting a sequal to Little Man!!!

Faster and faster, a nightmare we ride. Who'll take the reins when the miracle dies? Faster and faster till everything dies. Killing is our way of keeping alive. - Virgin Steele, Blood and Gasoline
The Swollen Goi...
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Posted: 3 years 20 weeks ago

LITTLEFINGER!!!