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B-S-FRAKKING-G!

Posted by Jakester on Friday, February 27, 2009

So, piano dude wasn't there. Kara's playing "All Along the Watchtower" and Hera's composing it.

What's it mean? Since her Dad taught it to her, I'm going with the theory that Daniel is her Daddy.

The Chief is a moron. And yet, unlike last week, I totally bought his actions.

Col_Matrix
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Posts: 313
Posted: 11 years 20 weeks ago

HOLY FRAK!!!!!

"You think we can smell them coming?"
uncleagent
Location:
Posts: 166
Posted: 11 years 20 weeks ago

This finale exceeded my expectaions.

FRAK!!!!!!!!! God I LOVE this show.

Latino caribo, mondo bongo, Nobody said it was fair. 
Jakester
Location:
Posts: 5753
Posted: 11 years 20 weeks ago

What I liked:
1. The explanation for the Opera House
2. The explanation for the notes
3. Head Six and Head Baltar showing up to Gauis and Caprica both
4. The destination
5. Cavil eating one
6. Doc Cottle
7. Tyrol!
8. Everything about the fight
9. Last scene with Adama

What I did not like:
1. NO explanation of any consequence for Kara.
2. Kara's disappearance. I suppose that she's the Jesus figure here, raised from the dead to save humanity and that's all the explanation we get, but...meh.
3. The coda at the end was unnecessary, and trite. For the show of this nature to end on a goofy dancing robot did it a disservice, I think. It should have ended with Adama.
4. Head Six and Head Baltar. We get nothing about them except that they're "angels" and they're the ones pulling the strings. They are orchestrating the larger events, so you get the sense that if one of the players didn't do what they wanted, they'd tag someone else to fill the role. But, the coda seems to indicate that they (and whoever doesn't like being called God) would be perfectly fine if the cycle was broken. Hey, here's a clue -- don't force it to start in the first place. Don't push people to choices that perpetuate the cycle. Gaius actually comes out a lot more sympathetic now because his actions were not necessarily his own. He was being led, and in some cases forced, by a higher power to do the things he did. I think I would've liked it better if head Six and head Baltar weren't explained at all.

All in all, it was a good finish to the series. I just hated the damn coda.

Richard Gozinya, Harold Snatch and Wilbur Jizz. Together we are the law firm Gozinya, Snatch and Jizz.
uncleagent
Location:
Posts: 166
Posted: 11 years 20 weeks ago

Right on. For me, the coda had a positive effect. I was feeling pretty emotionally walloped seeing this family broken up. True, new beginnings, new hopes but damn! So frakkin heavy! Not that it was a bad thing - on the contrary, it was as powerful of a finale as one could ever hope for. This show lived up to and exceeded its standard for story-telling, character development and ultimayely, for being true to itself. They never took us near that shark tank!

First of, seeing the fleet, Galactica and Anders sacrificed to the sun - frakkin sad! But whatcha gonna do? Good call, I suppose.

So, seeing Ros die - beautifully done, real... but heavy. Seeing that Adama and son would never be seeing each other again - damn! Sad! But hey! Finally Lee and Kara - true love together at last! I thought she said "I'm never letting you go." or something to that effect. and I'm thinking, "Yeah. This sorta borders on our obsession for a Hollywood happy ending. I'll take it."

But then came the sucker punch (for me it was anyway - I swear I didn't see this one coming). Kara was gone. She was an angel; Lee's guardian angel, Which to me, explains her revival and her mysterious identity and death. A bold move on the writers and IMHO - a brilliant story that doesn't stretch or weigh down on credibility issues. I liked it. But still, frakkin heavy.

That long shot of Adama would have been a perfect enough ending. Fitting and satisfying.

But, for me - hinged still on the overwhelming sadness of it all. Along comes this coda, which takes us out of the greif and into today. Our today, and sort of tells us "See. It all wasn't in vain. It all worked out" Not that we doubted it would. But still, it kinda took away the edge of it all and sorta said :It's okay to breathe now." I liked the insertion of Six and Baltar in the coda, as to show us - it still goes on, and the 'family' and spirit of BSG is still with us. Corny, but hey!

And they did ask us the obligatory SF question: are we doomed to repeat ourselves, of our own accord? Granted, the dancing robots were silly, and blunt - maybe that angle could have been a little less heavy-handed. Still - I have never really left a series finale feeling this satisfied other than maybe the ultimate classic finale back in the 90's - Newhart.

Latino caribo, mondo bongo, Nobody said it was fair. 
uncleagent
Location:
Posts: 166
Posted: 11 years 20 weeks ago

BTW - I LOVED the brilliant explanation of the roots of Scottish engineering!

Latino caribo, mondo bongo, Nobody said it was fair. 
uncleagent
Location:
Posts: 166
Posted: 11 years 20 weeks ago

I finally checked out the Props/Auction site. Of all the BSG props that stick out in my mind, the one I truly would like most of all to own is Adama;s lighter from Season One - The Hand of God.

I was heartened to see I wasn't alone in that sentiment. It was listed in their catalog for the $4000-$5000 range. If my AIG bonus check ever comes - I will get this!

Latino caribo, mondo bongo, Nobody said it was fair. 
uncleagent
Location:
Posts: 166
Posted: 11 years 20 weeks ago

Oh yeah - I loved that Cally got justice in the end. Although the price was tragic.

Latino caribo, mondo bongo, Nobody said it was fair. 
Crunchy
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Posts: 16
Posted: 11 years 20 weeks ago

[BTW - I LOVED the brilliant explanation of the roots of Scottish engineering!]

uncleagent..I pretty much said the same thing, but was more thinking about the 'tude of the Scots in general..heh.

Gentlemen Death
Location:
Posts: 270
Posted: 11 years 20 weeks ago

Jakester I agree with you on all of your cons and I was planning on writing the same but of course...

I felt after all this hype with Kara and who the fuck is she, to end it with her just vanishing was kinda weak. I get what they were trying to say, I can dig that but after the hyrbid saying she was going to be the harbinger of death and do not trust her was an unnecessary tactic by the creators to purposely throw us off...which it did.

Another thing that kind of bothered me, it's not a big gripe but one I had to scratch my head at for a moment: Why would Adm. Adama go off on his own after everything? I mean, he finally gets to have a normal life with Lee, spend it together and try and get past the military code of conduct relationship. Yes, I know Lee wanted to go off and do his own thing but come on man, after everything that they have been through to just give eachother a hug and that's it?......?....

All done and said, I have to say I was very, very happy with the ending. Yes, I could have done without the dancing robots but I was extremely happy when they showed that shot of Earth. All of them deserved it and to be just happy. All of them splitting up in my mind, WAS the right thing to do. Plus, some of them probably needed a break from one another....

Great show, one of the best in my eyes......

I keep my standards low, that way im never dissapointed
Crunchy
Location:
Posts: 16
Posted: 11 years 20 weeks ago

yeah I would have preferred Lee and his dad to go off together to explore....him just sitting there...
And if this is ancient Africa..where was the big ass Sabre Tooth or something leaping out and eating them all!

Patrick@CA
Location: Canada
Posts: 20119
Posted: 11 years 20 weeks ago

So did the writer really intend for the final episode of BSG to validate that it's OK to commit genocide and terrorism as long as you follow God's plan? Follow my thinking for a moment: by revealing that there is a third force at work and that it helped set in motion the Colonial holocaust on the Twelve Colonies (through Baltar and probably Caprica Six), it's no longer the evil that men (and Cylon) do that causes war and suffering, it's now also God (or whatever "it" likes to be called.)

I liked the final episode of BSG but after the high bar set with the first and second seasons, Moore needed to spend more time on planning out these final 10 episodes to make then reach the same heights as the earlier eps. Perhaps he should have mapped/written out the final episode first and backtracked from there. I don't mind that some answers to the lingering questions will remain mysteries (like Starbuck and the Head Six, to a degree) but the true value of Hera was ultimately shown to be nothing and that was a huge letdown after building it up for the entire series. Really, what purpose did Hera serve? If she had died, so what? Starbuck could have gotten the rest of the fleet to Earth and they could have made more hybrid babies. So what was Hera for? She didn't have to be mitochondrial Eve, that could have just as easily been any Cylon/human child.

Why did Starbuck's body land on nuked Earth when Apollo saw it blown up to little itty bitty pieces in the atmosphere of the gas giant? How could the constellations in the Temple of Athena match precisely the ones in our Earth's sky? (Remember, we saw Orion outside the Galactica's window when they were close to crispy Earth.) I still don't get who's a Cylon...were all of the 13th tribe on nuked Earth Cylons too? Or were the Final Five just humans that downloaded to Cylon bodies?

And the most important and pressing question...what was Anders' Viper call sign when he was a nugget flying a fighter??? Everyone else had one except for him!

No matter where you go, there you are.
uncleagent
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Posts: 166
Posted: 11 years 20 weeks ago

I tried to insert an image here. Sorry.

Latino caribo, mondo bongo, Nobody said it was fair. 
mckracken
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Posts: 965
Posted: 11 years 20 weeks ago

i loved it... wasnt put off by the "dancing robots" at the end.. not at all, that was ment to bridge a parallel between BSG and our 2009. Im fact a few nights ago, our 6pm news SHOWED and spotlighted that asian robot girl that the professor built - FOR REAL. thats no joke, that news is only about 6 months old.
(I was surprised they didnt try slipping in a classic "stock footage" shot of old Cylon Raiders from the original 1979 show on one of those TV sets on Our Earth! That would have been priceless and funny!)
I dug everything about the Cylon fight and how it was remanicant of the series from 1979 and even used the old Cylons from Razor.. my question was, why in the hell would Cavil surround himself with the weaker model Cylons?

i thought it strange when Cavil up and shoots himself in the head.. perhaps a bit rash there Cavil?

seeing what played out with Callie it couldnt have come at a more destructive moment just as they were about to finalize the ressurection hub for Cavil, those two go and strangle each other! LOL!

I loved the red striped Cylons.. GREAT.

And yes I was half expecting a giant sabre tooth tiger to come munch on Adama and Ros or at least get spotted by the neandrathals. lol!

so if ths is Earth.. our earth, then the nuked planet WASNT Earth? (our earth?) no mention of time travel was ever mentioned, it was kind of implied they went back in time to Pre-caveman Earth. Jumping the Galactica has NEVER spawned a time travel event before so why would it now?

And yes i totally bought the whole Starbuck is a Guardian Angel for Apollo and it makes sense that the Cylons would claim that she IS the Harbinger of Death - although NOT for the human race... she's the Harbinger of death for Cavil and the Cylon race! of course no Cylon should trust her, that message was never intended for Adm. Adama and the crew of the Galactica... it was actually MENT for CAVIL and the other Cylons.

Seeing her dissapear like that, it *kinda* answered those burning questions and it *sorta* didnt answer anything? My take was that she was an angel, *not a ghost* but a real Angel in a real body and when her job was finished, she simply wasnt there anymore.

My other question is simple, was the re-introduction of the characters past histories on Caprica ment to pave the way for this summer's new Spinoff CAPRICA? I think that if they want to connect the dots, Baltar's father is aprox. 70-80 years old and technically could be the only character to appear in both series. He would be aprox. 20 or so durring CAPRICA.

your thoughts?

mckracken
Location:
Posts: 965
Posted: 11 years 20 weeks ago

Patrick@CA wrote:

And the most important and pressing question...what was Anders' Viper call sign when he was a nugget flying a fighter??? Everyone else had one except for him!

Anders was secretly called "Senior McNugget" by his flying buddies. In an odd twist, KFC's Col. Sanders was actually created after Anders but so much time had passed they (Galactica's children's children's children's children's children's children) added an extra "S" to Anders name when they created the Col Sanders. and thats the truth.

so our ancestors all had Raptors and Vipers? its a damn shame that we dont have Raptors and Vipers...yet.

MindWalker
Location:
Posts: 94
Posted: 11 years 20 weeks ago

As soon as Adama pulled out and the camera turns to Apollo and Starbuck I just knew she was leaving as well. In a way, it felt like Sheridan going beyond the Rym.. sad, but I had it coming.

Roslin and Bill saying their goodbyes had me in tears, though.

I feel sorry for Tyrol and Apollo. Both lost their loved ones, Tyrol twice (well, 3 times since Boomer was shot twice + Cally) and were left to their own. Adama as well, but Roslin's fate was set from day one and he knew it.

While I can't say it was 100%, I know they didn't end it on their terms and had to rush things up with the little time they had left, so I guess its good enough. God knows I've seen worse when producers had the same deal handed to them overnight.

And in the end there's that sense of loss. I will miss the characters and the people behind them and everything else that made 'Battlestar Galactica' what it was.

Thank you RDM, cast and crew.

Jakester
Location:
Posts: 5753
Posted: 11 years 20 weeks ago

Pat,
I don't know about Orion's position on Earth 1, but are you certain that it was in the same position as it is on our Earth? I just sort of assumed afterwards that any markers we got weren't quite correct, and were meant to mislead us, not outright lie.
The genocide question presumes that God is "good" and against "evil." According to the "head" angels, those are concepts created by man. God simply "is' and the genocide was a necarry part to executing His plan. The God of the Christians, Hebrews, and Muslims sure as heck doesn't seem to have an issue with us offing each other, and in fact, has been known to kill perfectly innocent children just to piss off their parents.
Agreed on Hera. Making her Mitochondrial Eve was a big "so what." Ending with Adama would've let us speculate on her importance. Also, M. Eve died as a young woman. What happened to Helo and Athena? All they went through to save her and she has kids and dies as a teenager?! There's probably a Sarah Palin joke in there somewhere.
Heres another one -- WHY go to burnt-out Earth AT ALL? What did it accomplish? I know that Kara didn't have the coordinates to Earth 2 at the time, but I mean, from a perspective of God's Plan (since we've seen it now), how did it fit in?
I get the Kara disappearance, and I accept the story choice they made with that, but I almost would have preferred it if she just stayed with Lee and her resurrection was never explained. That's just me, though. I get the religious metaphor.

I suppose Ron was spot on that it's about the characters, because, for the most part, the finale was satisfying with respect to the main characters. When you start to look at some of the plot points, though, it doesn't hold up quite as well. And I don't mean to sound disparaging about the finale as a whole, because I did like it. I'm still thinking about it, and I did enjoy it. I guess my problem is that we're coming up with issues in the space of a few hours, and how long did the writers have to do thsi?!

Richard Gozinya, Harold Snatch and Wilbur Jizz. Together we are the law firm Gozinya, Snatch and Jizz.
Morpheus
Location:
Posts: 75
Posted: 11 years 20 weeks ago

I Cried.

Nuff said.

'All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream.'
Strider
Location:
Posts: 1430
Posted: 11 years 20 weeks ago

I finally watched the finale late last night, and I loved it.....except for the stupid coda thing. It just didn't seem to fit with everything else in tone and it felt very ham-handed. I didn't like the coda at all.

I also didn't really like the Kara disappearing thing. I'm fine with the concept, but the execution was somewhat lacking.

Also, I freaking love that the Galactica (and the fleet) got to sail off into the "sunset". :D

www.gamingoutsiders.com
Morpheus
Location:
Posts: 75
Posted: 11 years 20 weeks ago

I wasn't very happy with the coda thing either, but I loved the rest, even the Kara disappearing act. BSG will be missed.

'All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream.'
aduronia
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Posts: 30
Posted: 11 years 20 weeks ago

i cried too. for like, the entire last 40 minutes.

to see the face of god is to see madness
mckracken
Location:
Posts: 965
Posted: 11 years 20 weeks ago

i could understand why they would sail the Galactica into the sun, its more broken than before and will never jump again.. got that...

but the fleet? some of those ships could have landed on Earth and formed communities and city infrastructures. Remember the Macross SDF1? Destroying them set them back in the development of their cities.. and hell, I cant even wait for my microwave oven to warm my coffee now they are without their spaceships and yet they kept their smaller ships, Raptors and Vipers?

MindWalker
Location:
Posts: 94
Posted: 11 years 19 weeks ago

I think the idea was to let nature run its course and let them make their own break throughs, their own mistakes, and not interfere (or at least, as minimum as possible).

As for the Raptors and Vipers (actually, just Adama's Viper, if I'm not mistaken), they used them to get to the surface and could not take them back to the Fleet.

Well, one could say they could take everyone down there, then take the (empty) Raptors back to Galactica and cram up all the pilots in as little Raptors as possible back to the surface again, but that's more nitpicking than I'm willing to at this time of the morning ...

Jakester
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Posts: 5753
Posted: 11 years 19 weeks ago

They did something with the Raptors. They were using them to deposit people across the globe. Adama had one for himself that he flew with Roslin.

Something I thought was odd -- we've NEVER seen, or heard mention of, any other sentient life on BSG, and yet, no one is really freaked out by seeing other humanoids on Earth 2. They comment that the odds of them being genetically compatible are astronomical, but they're still not as surprised as maybe they should be.

Richard Gozinya, Harold Snatch and Wilbur Jizz. Together we are the law firm Gozinya, Snatch and Jizz.
neglet
Location:
Posts: 1434
Posted: 11 years 19 weeks ago

Jakester wrote:

Heres another one -- WHY go to burnt-out Earth AT ALL? What did it accomplish? I know that Kara didn't have the coordinates to Earth 2 at the time, but I mean, from a perspective of God's Plan (since we've seen it now), how did it fit in?

My guess: would the entire fleet have voted to disdain technology and start fresh on Earth 2 if they hadn't seen the destruction of the first Earth?

I loved the finale. I liked the flashbacks showing how everyone got to Galactica, I loved the confrontation between Galactica and the Cylons, loved loved LOVED Tyrol's arc, and Adama and Roslin's goodbyes. I thought the "answers" to the questions made sense for the most part (except for Hera, her story didn't seem to merit all the fuss), and liked the story's conclusion. I was very satisfied by the series wrapup, and will look forward to the Cylon story this fall, even if I do have to watch in on "Syfy" (stupidest name change ever--sounds like "syphilis").

Strider
Location:
Posts: 1430
Posted: 11 years 19 weeks ago

Penny Arcade agrees with you: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/3/18/

www.gamingoutsiders.com